Doyle VS the World: The Intersection of History, Faith, and Bitcoin.

Join me and my long-time friend, Thomas Doyle, as we explore our past and delve into critical topics. With a shared background in the Marines and a love for history, we discuss everything from Roman infrastructure to human rights, connecting them to today's issues.

We also touch on Doyle's Catholic upbringing and his views on religion, bureaucracy, and politics. Our debates on feminism and drug policies reveal how personal experiences shape our beliefs.

Finally, we discuss Bitcoin in a way that ties into our philosophical discussions. Get ready for an episode filled with personal stories, history, and the pursuit of truth.

Follow us on Twitter - @BTCisDeadPod

Chapters

• 0:00 The Worldview of Thomas Doyle
• 10:25 Childhood, Family, and Discipline
• 21:21 Exploring Catholic Beliefs and Misconceptions
• 29:24 Catholic Beliefs and Practices With Mary
• 39:20 Bureaucratic Inefficiencies and Authority Skepticism
• 47:09 The Rise and Fall of Rome
• 59:24 Evolution of Rights and Systems
• 1:13:53 Debating Political and Social Beliefs
• 1:19:01 Central NC Debate and Discussions

Transcript

Trey Carson: 0:00

Welcome back to the Bitcoin is Dead podcast. I am here with a special guest today, and I'd like to start off with my own little introduction of this particular guy. We've been rolling together now for 20-ish years 2014, right.

Thomas Doyle: 0:17

No 2005.

Trey Carson: 0:23

Yeah, you're right, I got out of the Marine Corps in 2012. Yeah, you're right.

Thomas Doyle: 0:26

Yeah, it was two we're a year shy of 20 years.

Trey Carson: 0:28

Yeah, almost almost 20 years yeah, well, I, I I see you as a person in my life who taught me a substantial amount. I mean, when I showed up to boot camp I learned a lot. But it wasn't until after boot camp and two years into the Marine Corps, when I met, kind of met you, that I started asking questions that weren't about beer or something you know, that doesn't really matter.

Trey Carson: 0:55

And you were the first person I ever approached with questions like that. I remember I was really nervous about approaching you to ask about your religion, because I had never really talked to anybody that wasn't of my religion and even when I did, it generally wasn't about my religion. You know, like I might, there might be commentary about the religion you know on a given day, but there was no in-depth conversation. But you've you've taught me a lot, and although I can't say that I've always agreed with everything that you've said you and although I can't say that I've always agreed with everything that you've said you never really wavered in your belief. You were always open to having a conversation about things. But you had already reached a point by the time I met you that a lot of your beliefs were set, and not because you couldn't learn new things, but because the things you had learned told you that there are certain things that are like an ultimate truth and there's nothing new to be learned there.

Thomas Doyle: 1:48

like this is just like gravity is a thing you know what goes up will come down, type of deal. I remember, I remember that argument yeah, bad example, yeah, bad example that was a drunk night.

Trey Carson: 2:01

But I I wanted to bring you on here for a couple of reasons. One is, uh, I think that in the long term you're actually more of a bit corner than you know, but in the short term I think that there's still a lot for me to learn and there's a lot for people that might be listening to learn. So I wanted to work with you to get you on here to let you start from the beginning and tell your story, because not only me but many people we've known have run against you on a given topic, and it's not always that you win. It's that you don't lose if that makes sense the other person to change their mind. But it's very, it's very uncommon for someone to find out to poke a hole logically in your belief systems, based on at least the evidence that I've ever been presented in these conversations. So I think it's it'll be cool to do and it's something we can do more than once. So, as today, you know, if you enjoy it, down the road we can do more things where we maybe dive into a particular topic or whatever the relevant news is for the day, whatever it might be.

Trey Carson: 3:10

But that all said thomas doyle, gunsmith, uh, brother, son, friend, philosopher I don't know all the titles that you might hold, but welcome, thank you. Thank you, it's good to be here. So where does it start? How do you tell if today's your last day and you got to write the book of Doyle? Where does it start?

Thomas Doyle: 3:39

So originally I was born and raised in California, in Los Angeles. I come from a fairly conservative Catholic family. My father is of Irish descent. My mother is of Mexican descent, so it should surprise Nope, the background should surprise nobody once they know that.

Thomas Doyle: 3:55

But as a kid growing up, one of the greatest things I think my dad ever did for me was I asked him about a dog, and I couldn't have been more than seven or eight years old at the time and he didn't know about whatever obscure breed of dog I was asking about. And so he just looked at me and then turned around behind him. We had a bookcase right behind him where he was sitting. He was sitting at the table reading his newspaper and I pointed at the bookcase. There was a set of encyclopedias sitting right there and I'd seen them before. I knew they were there. It just never occurred to me as a little kid to try and make use of them and he just pointed them out and said the encyclopedias are right there. If you really want to know about that thing, this dog, you know alphabetically how things line up alphabetically and stuff Just look through those encyclopedias alphabetically and you'll probably find it and you can find all kinds of information about it. And so, with some trepidation, I went up there and found the right encyclopedia and pulled the encyclopedia down and opened it up and looked up this dog. And to this day I don't remember what the dog was, I just remember it was something, some kind of a dog, but yeah, that I was. As I was reading about the dog, on the opposite page there was a diagram of something and it was showed like a whole bunch of arrows and lines and stuff like arrows pointing going through lines and stuff like that, and I was like, huh, what's this?

Thomas Doyle: 5:21

As I finished reading about the dog, I looked at this diagram that laid out clearly a series of events occurring and I started reading about it and to this day I don't remember which one it was, but it was either the battle of Gettysburg, the battle of Waterloo or the battle of Stalingrad, and I don't remember which one I read about first, which which one I found which was opposite the dog, but I remember reading that, and which which one I found which was opposite the dog, but I remember reading that, and and that this is an illustration of a battle that took place and that that you know, tens of thousands of men clashed and were killed on this battlefield and this is a diagram of what happened and I was just kind of blown away by that.

Thomas Doyle: 5:58

So I immediately read everything I could read about that and then started looking for as a little kid I was just looking for other diagrams that were similar that I, that I could actually follow along and understand what was happening. And the first three that I found were were Gettysburg, waterloo and Stalingrad, and I don't. I don't remember which one was first, which was the second, which was third anymore. Those were the first three that I found and from there started reading up on the history of of the civil war, the Napoleonic war and world war two, and from there that got me into reading about world history. So I got to a point where I was just randomly, when I had free time, pulling down encyclopedias and just reading up on world history, just because I thought it was fascinating.

Trey Carson: 6:42

What was free time Like? Like? Was this something you did daily, weekly?

Thomas Doyle: 6:48

um, you, there was pretty much every day I would have at least a few minutes. You know, as kids we always had chores and stuff like that that we had to do, but there would almost always be, you know, 10 minutes here, 15 minutes. You know you finish all your school work before dinner. You generally have some free time. Uh, you finish all your chores after dinner. You know you generally have some free time. You finish all your chores after dinner. You know there was generally some free time before bedtime. So there was. It was almost almost every day I'd be reading about something.

Trey Carson: 7:12

Were your brothers and your sister doing the same thing.

Thomas Doyle: 7:16

No.

Trey Carson: 7:16

What were they doing? What kind of what did they spend their free time on during this, this kind of time period?

Thomas Doyle: 7:23

Well, gerard and Phillip would go out and get in trouble. And then, uh, angela, I don't know what she was doing, she was she's the oldest, my older sister, she's my only sister. She was always kind of removed from the rest of us because she was the oldest and because she was the only girl. Uh, she definitely got into a lot less trouble than all the rest of us, but, uh, yeah, she was. She was schoolwork to do because she was always at least a couple of grades ahead of anybody and all the rest of us because she was the oldest. So she was always very much removed from all of us. And then obviously she went off to go to work and all that when she turned 18. So she was always kind of separate from us.

Thomas Doyle: 8:01

Gerard and Philip that's the brother below me and the brother above me. I have one older brother. Uh, they would, they would go off and go exploring, they would go climbing walls and climbing trees, and sometimes I'd go with them. But for the most part I was kind of the killjoy of the group. I was the one being like this is a bad idea, we're gonna get in trouble. This is not. This is not a good thing to do? We shouldn't be going through the neighbor's yard. We shouldn't be climbing this tree. We shouldn't be running through that person's back porch we should be doing all this how old were you, uh between?

Thomas Doyle: 8:30

7 and 15.

Trey Carson: 8:31

These are the sort of things we would do as young boys 15 you were still reading encyclopedias, though oh yeah, I kept doing that right up until I went to the marine corps.

Thomas Doyle: 8:40

Do you still read encyclopedias? So now it's mostly electronic online. I'll google stuff online. But you have, you don't actually hit an encyclopedias. So, no, it's mostly electronic online. I'll Google stuff online.

Trey Carson: 8:45

But you don't actually hit an encyclopedia, even digitally now. You just do like Wikipedia or something.

Thomas Doyle: 8:50

So I will read Wikipedia quite a bit. I will caveat that for anybody listening, wikipedia is a great place to find sources of information. Wikipedia itself is not a good source of information. It's a great place to find sources, but, yeah, so you don't want to you. Wikipedia is a little too easily edited and accessed by, you know, whoever ever anybody on the internet, so you don't want to rely on it too much. But it is a great place to find sources, and the way I figured that out was just Googling Marine Corps stuff, and the sources that are cited at the bottom of the article are the Marine Corps publications. So you can, you could use the Wikipedia article to find the actual Marine Corps doctrine very quickly.

Trey Carson: 9:33

What was your family life like?

Thomas Doyle: 9:36

Um, it was definitely a lot more reserved than most people's. Like, we didn't have a TV grown up. Uh, we had a monitor that was hooked up to a VCR and so we could watch movies and sometimes we would get TV shows on VHS and stuff like that. I think the first movie we ever watched in color because the original monitor we had was black and white, and the first movie we ever watched in color was Beauty and the Beast and we had seen it in black and white, so seeing it in color I remember that was a big deal does it still?

Trey Carson: 10:03

does that movie still hold something for you? Because of that?

Thomas Doyle: 10:05

I do, I do still like, even though like it's a kind of a girl movie.

Trey Carson: 10:09

Yes, yeah, as typical as little kids we.

Thomas Doyle: 10:11

We watched all the disney cartoons, all the disney renaissance movies aladdin, little mermaid, uh, beauty and the beast, of course, um, the emperor's new groove. I remember that was when that one came out. It was kind of later than most of those other ones, but that one, that one, was always one of my favorites. I quoted that movie for years and every once in a while I still quote it from time to time yeah, but were your?

Trey Carson: 10:31

what were your parents like?

Thomas Doyle: 10:34

um, so as long as I've known them they're. They're very sensible and responsible and reasonable people, you know, salt of the earth kind of people. But I think most people would think of them as kind of boring, which is kind of funny, because growing up as a kid I always heard stories that my dad had had a 68 Chevelle when he was young, when he was in his like early twenties, and for years I had no idea what that was and I thought of it as as some kind of small, sensible, economical car and I'd always heard how my dad did racing and stuff like that and I never understood that. That never made sense to me how he could have been racing in this sensible, economical car, because that's always what he drove. And then one day I was actually in Miramar. I'd already joined the Marine Corps, I'd already been in for a couple of years.

Thomas Doyle: 11:25

I was in Miramar and I saw one of the car trader magazines or something sitting there by the cash register as I was walking to the cash register and I think the one that was on the magazine was a 69 Chevelle. But for anyone who doesn't know, that's a fairly powerful muscle car and, yeah, it's not sensible or economical at all. It is very much a powerful racing car, muscle car from the 60s and, yeah, I almost tripped over my own feet. I couldn't believe it. So then I started asking around, asking questions of other people in the family who were older, who were around in that time, and found out that apparently back in the day my dad was actually a somebody in the street racing community in los angeles. He was a known person. People knew patty doyle because, yeah, they would go.

Thomas Doyle: 12:11

His name is patrick doyle yeah, patty, that just yeah.

Trey Carson: 12:14

I couldn't imagine calling your dad patty yeah yeah, it's, it was.

Thomas Doyle: 12:18

It was crazy. It blew my mind when I found that out, but yeah, apparently at the time him and my mom were dating. He was a freaking street racer.

Trey Carson: 12:25

Yeah.

Thomas Doyle: 12:25

That was that he was like the like fast and furious kind of shit. He did that for real, but so your?

Trey Carson: 12:31

mom would have been around during that time period too, yeah.

Thomas Doyle: 12:34

So they met as kids. Their families lived across the street from each other and their mothers, my grandmothers, were friends, and that was how they met.

Trey Carson: 12:44

So she knew him from early, early on. Yeah, they knew each other as kids growing up, yeah, so she knew him before he got into whatever wildness he got into, and then after. Yes, that's pretty cool.

Thomas Doyle: 12:54

Yeah, yeah she, she knew the whole thing and yeah they. They came together and decided to settle down and have a family.

Trey Carson: 13:01

Now you do have a big family.

Thomas Doyle: 13:03

Yes, yeah, I have have a family. Now you do have a big family. Yes, yeah, I have one sister and seven brothers. Was that intentional? Yes, they went into it, my mom and dad. Their intention when they got married is we are going to build a big family how did they know?

Trey Carson: 13:15

and I'm imagining it was just biological but did they pick a stopping point or did it just nature took its course?

Thomas Doyle: 13:23

they said we're going to have as many children as god will bless us with.

Trey Carson: 13:25

Okay, so they could have had 12, 15. If the time had, if time and biology had allowed, yes, they could have had as many as as they could. Yes, I'm planning a trip, obviously, to Japan. Yeah, and it's five of us. Yeah, and that is a hefty load, right financially. Yeah, did your parents take you guys or do a lot outside of the home? And if they didn't, was do you think it was financially related?

Thomas Doyle: 13:52

um, we did stuff occasionally. I remember as a kid going to, uh, seaworld, uh, knott's berry farm, which is like a amusement park type thing, that's that's up there in los angeles. Um, we went to disneyland a few times. So we, we would, we would occasionally go places and do things. So, yeah, it was.

Trey Carson: 14:10

It was not a common occurrence that was like a once a year kind of thing. How did you get there with 12 people?

Thomas Doyle: 14:15

uh, my, my parents had a big ass van did you have like a 15 passenger?

Trey Carson: 14:18

15 passenger, yeah, big one, was it white?

Thomas Doyle: 14:21

yes, well, first we had a tan and then we ended up getting the 15-passenger one later.

Trey Carson: 14:26

So did you guys have three vehicles, because I imagine you guys didn't drive the 15-passenger van every day.

Thomas Doyle: 14:32

No, that got driven around all the time. That was my mom's standard riding vehicle.

Trey Carson: 14:37

So your mom would just take off to the grocery store by herself in a 15-passenger van.

Thomas Doyle: 14:40

There was almost always somebody with her, okay, so yeah, van, there was almost always somebody with her, okay, so yeah. And especially going to the grocery store. This is something that a lot of people don't realize nowadays. When you have a lot of kids like that, the way to make it so much easier on yourself is to have the kids start doing things, yeah, and they start taking a lot of the stress and the burden off of, you know, normal upkeep of the family. For example, when, when mom would go shopping, she would always make sure she had a couple of us with her to push the carts and haul the groceries and move all the stuff. Cause, obviously she, you need a lot of groceries to feed that many people. How many gallons of milk per week? Um, at least six. No, cause she would. She would make a separate milk run on Saturdays.

Trey Carson: 15:21

So probably around eight she had a milk run day. Yes, yeah, that was a thing. If you had been born a few years prior, you would have made the milk man, like at, a lot of money.

Thomas Doyle: 15:29

Yes, cause he would have stopped by there like every other day. Yes, well we, if we had been born in that era, we probably would have got a cow.

Trey Carson: 15:36

Yeah, yeah.

Thomas Doyle: 15:41

Los Angeles has all kinds of reasons about that. I don't know when milkman stopped.

Trey Carson: 15:45

I don't know when that became a not thing anymore. I think it was in the 50s.

Thomas Doyle: 15:49

Yeah, yeah, I think it was after Los. Angeles. I could be wrong, but I it was already Los Angeles, yeah.

Trey Carson: 15:55

I've always understood your upbringing. In the way that we've messed with each other over the years, I've always understood your upbringing is, uh, not, I wouldn't say strict, that's not the right word for it. That's not how I feel about it. I would say, by modern standards, strict would be a good word. Yeah, I, I think it is a good word, but it doesn't describe how I've always viewed it, which is like internal they, they.

Trey Carson: 16:18

It was a family that had a certain set, a certain system, a certain set of rules, yeah, that they maintained, and the family was a tight nip, tight knit internal unit where I understand that you had extended family, cousins and other things, but within, within the, the children of your parents, there always seemed to me to be a cohesion, yeah, and a tight knit kind of mentality where what went on outside the family was one thing, what went on inside the family was another, and inside the family the rules were structured as such that, again, I don't feel that it was per se strict. It was just that you knew what the rules were and so they were easy to abide by, like if you did something dumb, you knew what was going to happen.

Thomas Doyle: 17:02

It wasn't a question.

Trey Carson: 17:04

There wasn't like a conversation that was had between parents of other families, like what do you think I should do or what would you do?

Thomas Doyle: 17:10

Oh yeah, you knew what the rules were, and my parents believe in spanking. So, yeah, we all got spanked.

Trey Carson: 17:18

That's how it worked. But Angela is the oldest. Yes, is she old enough beyond you guys that she didn't get spankings? By the time you were getting spankings, like was there a big enough gap between you guys?

Thomas Doyle: 17:30

so this is one thing I think was just a difference between boys and girls. Angela caused way, way less trouble. I know she did get spanked a few times, but it's like our entire childhood. She got spanked maybe two or three times okay, whereas the rest of us we'd get spanked two or three times a month.

Trey Carson: 17:46

Your dad. I feel like your dad was whipping somebody's ass every single day of the week, Like he'd come home from work and just hand his hands just warmed up. He's been rubbing his pants on the way there.

Thomas Doyle: 17:55

Oh hands, that was, that's amateur, that's amateur hour, oh yeah.

Trey Carson: 18:00

Your mom already had the drawer open with the spoons hanging out when he got home. You're still an amateur hour there, buddy. Okay, where are we going? Are you saying that your dad was with people with extension cables?

Thomas Doyle: 18:10

So it went from hands and then to like plastic wiffle bat, and then to the freaking spoons oh wiffle, bat oh wiffle. That was a joke. That broke almost immediately, and it was utterly useless.

Trey Carson: 18:26

I grew up with a lot of grandmas who throw a slipper yeah right, and sometimes they didn't even use their hands, right it was just like a foot movement suddenly and like a slipper. A slipper would go across the room, yeah, but it seems like a whiffle bat is such a random choice, like your dad was just mad one day and there was a whiffle bat nearby. It could have been a tomahawk steak and he would have grabbed it.

Thomas Doyle: 18:44

He deliberately that was when we were all little so he deliberately grabbed something that wouldn't hurt us and then, as we started getting bigger, it didn't hurt us, so it had no effect. And he eventually broke it. And it just had no effect. So he had to go to something bigger. And that's when the spoons came in and we got a little bit bigger and those stopped having an effect. So then he went up to belt.

Trey Carson: 19:03

Then we got a little bit bigger and those stopped having an effect. So then he went up to belt. How big do you got to be for a big ass wooden spoon not to have an effect?

Thomas Doyle: 19:08

Because I imagine that hurts thoroughly. No, not really. Once you do something really stupid like freaking. I'm trying to think of something like just dump half a roll of toilet paper in the toilet. You know the sixth time you've been told to flush every piece of toilet paper. You, the toilet. You know the sixth time you've been told to flush every piece of toilet paper you put in there and you just ignore it and put that in so you overflow the toilet and there's now poop water on the floor. You need something to tell you hey, don't do that. And obviously just telling you doesn't sink in, it doesn't leave an impression. So every single one of us has done that at least two or three times.

Thomas Doyle: 19:45

This is an ongoing battle that my. This is one of many ongoing battles that my parents fought and eventually won. Like, none of us has clogged a toilet in years, and we've learned if you clog the toilet, fix it. That's. That's another thing that that we learned. You know, don't put it on mom and pop to fix it, you fix. If you fix the problem before they get there, then there's no problem. You just explain oh hey, I fixed this thing, and they're like, oh okay, when you leave a giant mess of shit on the floor for mom and pop to clean up, they get a little upset and and this is this is part of the trick of raising kids you get them to start cleaning up their own messes and it makes a whole lot less heartache and pain for mom and pop.

Trey Carson: 20:28

Yeah, but I could share a story about you clogging up a toilet.

Thomas Doyle: 20:31

All right, what's?

Trey Carson: 20:32

that you don't remember. It was cold and you clogged up the damn toilet and I was up under the house trying to clean it and we had that plumber guy show up.

Thomas Doyle: 20:42

I do remember there was nothing I could have done about that. That wasn't the toilet itself, that was the plumbing under the house.

Trey Carson: 20:46

Yes, yes, I know, it just happened to be you, just happened to be the one who discovered it.

Thomas Doyle: 20:52

Yes, yeah, there was absolutely nothing I could have done about that.

Trey Carson: 20:55

Yeah, that wasn't your fault. Yeah, so you grew up Catholic? Yes, I grew up Protestant, yeah, yeah, and Protestant might be even like a light term, because it was. I don't think most of the people in my church could have told you what a Protestant was if they knew they were Baptist. That's all they knew, right, it was the King James Bible from front to back, and that was the end of the story. There's no more conversation. Catholics, whoever else like it, doesn't matter. There's not even a conversation. It's dead on arrival. So growing up Catholic I've learned from you over the years was much different.

Thomas Doyle: 21:27

Yeah.

Trey Carson: 21:27

I also feel like that's something that you've also had to defend for a lot of your life. I don't know about it during your childhood, but I know that after you grew up and joined the Marine Corps our time together there everyone assaulted your religion.

Thomas Doyle: 21:43

Yes.

Trey Carson: 21:43

At some point, to some degree, yes, even if it was just through, something you wouldn't do. Like you, yeah, like you wouldn't eat breakfast before, uh, you went to church yes and you like when lent came out.

Thomas Doyle: 21:53

How long did it take you to realize that? Years years and I was blown away when I found out I'd known you, for it was after the marine corps when I found that out so that I had known you for 10.

Trey Carson: 22:04

It was after the Marine Corps when I found that out, so that I had known you for 10 years. Yeah, you're a sneaky thing, yeah, the whole leaving your house or leaving my house on a Sunday morning I thought you were getting a haircut.

Thomas Doyle: 22:13

I mean I did get a haircut after church.

Trey Carson: 22:17

Yeah, but tell me about, like, how you perceive your, your upbringing from a Catholic perspective and then what it felt like when you walked out from your family and joined the marine corps and started interacting with people that weren't of the catholic faith in mass. I know that you had plenty of people you interacted with before, but when you were the lone catholic or the lone outspoken catholic, yeah, and a lot of the circles that we found ourselves in, yeah, how did that? How did that work out for you?

Thomas Doyle: 22:43

so as, as a Catholic, among Catholics, occasionally you'll find somebody who believes something kind of weird and it doesn't really make sense most of the time, like what Um, what's the uh, the um, uh, the circumcision thing?

Thomas Doyle: 22:57

A lot of people think that Catholics have to be circumcised, which is very, very strange to me, because if you've actually read the Bible you know that in the Acts of the Apostles, peter and Paul had that debate like 2,000 years ago. And in the Bible the way the debate ends is Jesus gives a vision to Peter, because Jesus has already been crucified, already risen from the dead, he's already ascended to heaven, so he's gone and Peter was like the leader of the apostles. And then Jesus picked Paul to kind of help with the evangelization and spreading of the gospel. And they're having this debate between them. Peter believes that everybody who joins the new Christian faith has to be circumcised and has to become a Jew, basically, and Paul is disputing that because Paul's preaching to the Gentiles, the Greeks and the Romans and such, and they're having this big debate and there was a big council in Jerusalem where they all came together to try and decide what they were going to do about it. And basically Jesus gave Peter a vision and essentially told Peter shut the hell up.

Trey Carson: 23:55

Paul's doing what I want him to. Let me stop you right there. There was a debate in antiquity about chopping off tips of dicks. Yes, like a full debate. Like they organized, got people together.

Thomas Doyle: 24:08

Yes, and talked about tips of dicks yeah, well, the foreskin of the dick. Yeah, you have too much cock.

Trey Carson: 24:14

Yes, you need to cut some off, so that's that's the event that we are now like. That's how circumcision was defined, for the catholic religion was a organized cock cutting or cock cutting conversation yes say that three times. No, I don't mean to joke, but like you gotta, yeah, like the, imagine being a bystander and be like what's that meeting about? And they're like, well, they're talking about cutting off the tips of each other's dick.

Thomas Doyle: 24:40

They're really having a debate about it serious yeah that seems strange it does seem strange today, because we don't understand the severity and importance of cultural imperatives that existed at the time and that was a really big one for Jews and remains a really big one to this very day. Jews, male Jews, are all circumcised. You know, if, if they're religious Jews, if they're just cultural Jews, they might, they might forego that, but if they're a religious jew and they actually believe in the jewish faith and follow the jewish tradition to any extent, a male jew is circumcised but from the catholic perspective, not required not required frowned upon um well, there's no real reason for it, like the only.

Thomas Doyle: 25:23

The only actual function of it is it makes hygiene simpler. But you know, proper modern bathing takes care of that problem. But yeah, that's. That's something that Catholics are still oddly split on, and I don't under like every time I encounter a Catholic who believes that yeah, you got to be circumcised. I'm like what and and it's not part of the?

Trey Carson: 25:48

catholic. There's nothing in the catholic teachings that says you should be outside of like.

Thomas Doyle: 25:52

The bible is one section of teachings, but well, all catholic teaching is based on the bible and the bible very explicitly says no, you don't have to, it's not required what so?

Trey Carson: 26:04

you grew up Catholic house, yeah, but then I go into Marine Corps.

Thomas Doyle: 26:08

Brand is a weird Catholic folk, yes but usually it's one specific thing like that and that'll be it. The rest of their beliefs make perfect sense and I understand where all the rest of their beliefs come from. Then I get out into the world and start meeting non-Catholics and I was shocked by how often their beliefs are based on nothing. And there's one reason why I had no trouble constantly getting pushback from people, because I would start questioning them on their beliefs and their doubts and why do they doubt this or that particular thing and why do they believe in this or that particular thing? And I found that oftentimes people's beliefs are based on almost nothing, or or maybe they're just based on. My dad said so and I never even thought to to try and check on that or investigate it a little bit.

Trey Carson: 26:55

But the sheer quantity of people that that I know at least that have had commerce conversations with you. Yeah, about not necessarily being catholic, but about being a religion, yeah. Did you ever question yours? Did you ever waver because of conversations or quantity of conversations? No.

Thomas Doyle: 27:13

No, nobody has ever presented me an argument that made me think, huh, maybe the church teachings are wrong. I've never heard an argument like that. Now, this is it's important because part of my upbringing was being educated on the history of the church and the history of the world and such, and so I'm very much aware that the Catholic church is a human institution. Now, as a Catholic, I believe that God is guiding this institution and will prevent it from going too far astray and will prevent it from, for example, teaching heresy. But that doesn't mean the people in the church are incapable of sin. Yeah, they're still people.

Trey Carson: 27:53

They're still human. Yes, does that include the Pope?

Thomas Doyle: 27:56

Yes, Now I don't think the Pope is capable of teaching, like a bishop could try and go teach heresy and become a heretic bishop. I don't think that's possible for the pope. I believe that, like if he were to try to consciously, deliberately try, god would literally strike him dead. So you die of a heart attack or a stroke or something.

Trey Carson: 28:15

You believe that if he came out and said something that was completely against the basics of christianity or catholicism or god, it's god himself? Yeah, that there would be an event in which, before he could execute, before he could make statements, whatever the case may be that God would just strike him down? Yeah, like full-heartedly.

Thomas Doyle: 28:35

Yeah, or maybe that wouldn't be necessary. Maybe he's getting ready to go do the speech and there's a lightning storm and the electrical system goes out and he can't make the speech, so it has to be canceled. It might be something like that. But if he was like bound and determined yeah, I'm going to do this, I'm going to make this happen yeah He'd, he'd have a heart I think God would take nothing like that ever happened historically with popes like things.

Thomas Doyle: 29:04

Interestingly enough, not a single one has ever tried to say this is justified under Catholic doctrine.

Trey Carson: 29:10

Can you give us an example of what this would be.

Thomas Doyle: 29:13

The Borgia popes no, no, no.

Trey Carson: 29:15

Perfect example of that An example of what a Pope could say or be going to say that would. That would kind of cause this reaction. Uh, killing your children is acceptable to include abortion yes so there's obviously in at least in that statement there's there's ambiguity, because you could say children, post-birth baby or in a fetus or whatnot, pre-birth right like well that's common.

Thomas Doyle: 29:41

That's the thing there. There actually is no distinction in catholic doctrine. It's it's a human life. The only acceptable circumstance where one human can destroy another is the other human poses an imminent threat to your life. So you are defending your life from imminent threat is it?

Trey Carson: 30:01

is there other? I know I've always kind of got the impression that abortion is something that Catholics are very vocal about, like not vocal in the outspoken way, but if you ask them, is it okay, in most cases they will say no and they don't really have a lot of exceptions. Is there another topic within the Catholic religion that people universally believe that they would feel so passionate about if, if, say, society started violating that particular belief? Because abortion is a very, very, it's a very, very sensitive subject?

Thomas Doyle: 30:32

yes but it's also like almost immediately controversial as soon as you say the word, people expect controversy yeah, yeah, it's a major political debate is there?

Trey Carson: 30:39

is there another topic that's that hot within the catholic religion? Just America, or whatever culture, just doesn't happen to hit on it.

Thomas Doyle: 30:46

Women can't be priests. That's another big one.

Trey Carson: 30:49

Within the church itself Correct Like within. Is this even within your family?

Thomas Doyle: 30:54

Or is your family kind of within it? This is a universal Catholic doctrine.

Trey Carson: 30:59

But the debate about it.

Thomas Doyle: 31:06

it so the their most other churches, like baptist churches, protestant churches, the anglican church in england, will have uh women ordained as priests.

Trey Carson: 31:12

Why?

Thomas Doyle: 31:12

there is no such thing as a as a woman.

Trey Carson: 31:14

Catholic priest why is that?

Thomas Doyle: 31:16

because priests all have apostolic succession, meaning every priest can trace his lineage from the person who ordained him to the person who ordained him, to the person who ordained him, back to one of the 12 apostles.

Trey Carson: 31:28

But couldn't. If a priest today ordained a female, couldn't she chase her lineage all the way back to? Because you're not talking about biological lineage.

Thomas Doyle: 31:35

Well, part of that requirement is all the apostles were men. Jesus specifically selected 12 men.

Trey Carson: 31:42

So how does Mary fit into that? I know that she wasn't one of the 12 men but, she was obviously very close to Jesus.

Thomas Doyle: 31:48

Yes.

Trey Carson: 31:49

Could it not be? And obviously it's too late to trace it back to Mary per se Well, she was not a priest. What was her role? I've never really understood her role because the Catholics seem very attracted to Mary.

Thomas Doyle: 31:59

Which Mary are you talking about? Because there's a couple of Marys in the Bible.

Trey Carson: 32:02

Primarily the one that I see on candles a lot.

Thomas Doyle: 32:05

That would be the Virgin Mary. There you go. That's the mother of Jesus.

Trey Carson: 32:08

Okay, so I'm not talking about. I'm talking about the one that followed Jesus.

Thomas Doyle: 32:11

So Mary Magdala.

Trey Carson: 32:13

Sure.

Thomas Doyle: 32:14

She's not the one on the candles, she's not the one that we would venerate.

Trey Carson: 32:27

Okay, I know that she wasn't one of them, but she was very close to Jesus and it's too late to go back now and say, well, if she were to bestow her—if she were a priest she could bestow her priesthood upon a lady of her time. And then you would have the same thing on the male side. But why couldn't a male today just say you're preaching the word, you're doing the things that the church wants. Why couldn't she do it?

Thomas Doyle: 32:51

Because the apostles were specifically given the authority to do that and she was not.

Trey Carson: 32:57

Yeah, but the apostles are gone and now their lineage, who still have the same authority.

Thomas Doyle: 33:01

Yes. Couldn't they say no, why that authority was not granted to not granted. We do not know or understand why. We can guess and speculate, yeah, but jesus specifically gave that authority to the men in that followed him. What do you to the women?

Trey Carson: 33:15

where. Why are catholics from my, from my perspective really really interested in? Why is there so many pictures of a mary? I can't necessarily always know which one, but why is mary such a big deal? Because, like, if you go to a baptist church, yeah, it's jesus, jesus cross, jesus, jesus. You won't see a picture of mary most of the time. I I've never been inside of a catholic church.

Thomas Doyle: 33:37

Yeah, but seeing pictures of mary in catholic church is very common.

Trey Carson: 33:41

Yeah but it seems like anytime I run into a place that's predominantly Catholic, for whatever reason, there's lots of pictures of Mary and not as many. I mean, there are obviously going to be pictures of Jesus, but yes, yeah, there'll be like 80% Mary pictures of Mary yeah. Why? Why are Catholics interested in Mary?

Thomas Doyle: 33:54

Because she is much closer to us than he is. She is fully human. He is both human and god. She is fully human and, to put it simply, she has his ear. There's a very specific incident in the in the gospels where she wanted something done and his exact reply to her was woman, what would you have me do?

Trey Carson: 34:19

my time has not yet come so even jesus started his reply with woman.

Thomas Doyle: 34:24

Yes, okay, yes that is exactly how he replied to, which she seems to have completely ignored that. And this is this was at a wedding feast, which brings me into another weird belief that some catholics have about catholics shouldn't drink at all. That's weird because at this particular wedding feast that they were attending, they ran out of wine, like the booze is all gone. We've run out of boo because at this particular wedding feast that they were attending, they ran out of wine, like the booze is all gone. We've run out of booze at this wedding. And so Mary goes to Jesus, like the disciples, and some of the servants that knew them came to her and told her we have this problem, we're trying to figure out what to do, and we don't know what to do. So she goes to him and says, hey, they're out of wine. And he says what do you want me to do about it? It's not my time to start working miracles and doing things he said.

Thomas Doyle: 35:10

I'm off the clock Basically. And she seems to have completely ignored that and gone to the servants and says, hey, do whatever he tells you. And then he went along with it and, freaking, told them you know, take all these stone jars that you have here and go fill them with water.

Trey Carson: 35:28

He's probably like ah fuck.

Thomas Doyle: 35:31

We don't know if he said anything of that nature because that's not recorded.

Thomas Doyle: 35:34

But he told the servants to fill up the stone jars with water and then draw some of the water out and take it to the head waiter. And the servants are like, oh okay, I don't get it, whatever. And so they filled up all these jars with water, drew some out and took it to the head waiter. And when the head waiter took it, it was wine, and he tasted it and was amazed by how, what excellent wine it was, and actually went to the groom and complimented the groom for having saved the best wine for last. And at that point all the water in the stone jars had become wine. So, in other words, not only is it acceptable to drink, but Jesus brought the good booze. He didn't just bring average booze.

Trey Carson: 36:16

He bought the good booze and he didn't pay tax on it either. So technically, Jesus is a moonshiner.

Thomas Doyle: 36:22

Technically, we can discuss that you are supposed to pay just taxes?

Trey Carson: 36:28

well, we can. We can argue what taxes are just, and I will argue. There are a great many taxes today that are not just in the eyes of the irs, jesus was a bootlegger, a moonshiner if he had been living in the united states.

Thomas Doyle: 36:41

Well, no, he didn't sell it. He did not sell, yeah, but he received no profit.

Trey Carson: 36:44

Yeah, but you can't make liquor, regardless if you sell it or not. You can't make, you can't distill liquor over a certain quantity.

Thomas Doyle: 36:51

So if he was at a wedding, presumably there was enough people there depends on what the quantity is per person and all that, but yeah, but anyway, jesus brought the boost, so drinking is perfectly acceptable. It's being drunk that's sinful, so there. So there's a distinction there that a lot of people miss. But the whole point of that, to bring it back to the subject of Mary, when she wanted him to do something, he did it. He honored his mother and respected her wishes. So we can ask for her intercession with him, and she will often help us if we come to her in a spirit of humility and repentance, and such will. She will often help us if we come to her in a in spirit of humility and repentance, and such. So do you pray help us.

Trey Carson: 37:27

Do you pray to mary at some point? Not you specifically, but is it like a catholic thing where you actually pray to mary instead of to god or to jesus?

Thomas Doyle: 37:34

yeah, we pray for her to intercede, okay. So it's a. It's a kind of another kind of fine distinction that a lot of people miss we will pray to her and we will pray to saints. We do not worship them. Yeah, worship is reserved for god.

Trey Carson: 37:48

So there's there's a distinction, and I'm guessing that, when you like, from a ritual perspective, if you have a statement or a saying or a proverb that you might go over some are, some are not like you wouldn't say the same thing to god or to jesus per se as you would to Mary? Yeah, in your ritual purposes, or maybe in your prayers?

Thomas Doyle: 38:07

Yes.

Trey Carson: 38:08

It's treated differently.

Thomas Doyle: 38:09

Yes.

Trey Carson: 38:09

Okay, so you grow up, you hit all this not anti-Catholic, but all this. What is wrong with you? Why won't you do these things? And I remember many things that you wouldn't do for many years and some of them you still don't do. Yeah, Facebook. And I remember many things that you wouldn't do for many years, and some of them you still don't do, yeah, um Facebook.

Thomas Doyle: 38:26

You wouldn't do Facebook for many years. Yeah, that's. That's not cause I think it's sinful, it's just cause I kind of hate it. I still kind of hate it to this day.

Trey Carson: 38:31

You were just in a different classification.

Thomas Doyle: 38:33

Yeah, and I also hated having pictures of me taken.

Trey Carson: 38:48

I've never not seen you. I don't know if it depends on the size of the meal or if you're eating a certain type of thing, but it seems like you always pray it's before a meal.

Thomas Doyle: 38:53

That's the distinction in my mind, is I pray before meals. If it's just a snack, there's not really any need for it. But if I'm going to sit down and eat a meal, I'm going to say a quick prayer to ask God to bless the food.

Trey Carson: 39:04

So, with all the consistencies that I saw, you maintain and this is now for me and you going on 20 years but you've obviously got life before me, so that's another 30 years, 17 years, yeah, so your total 35, 38 years yeah.

Trey Carson: 39:18

So you've got a long time of maintaining these beliefs. Did you feel like, when you came out of the marine corps or at a certain point in the marine corps, that you were not the same person as you were before, even if you believe the same things that you're, just the outlook had changed no, no, my outlook hasn't really changed at all.

Thomas Doyle: 39:33

What would you?

Trey Carson: 39:33

say, changed most about you in the marine corps. Because the marine corps and from my perspective, was your your first outinging into the regular per se world. Because your family, again from my perspective, was very reserved, very inside the house, not a lot of external exposure, not a lot of media.

Thomas Doyle: 39:53

Yeah.

Trey Carson: 39:54

Kind of just like mom pop and this. That's the end of the road, that's the authority. Everybody else is just out there somewhere.

Thomas Doyle: 40:00

Yeah.

Trey Carson: 40:00

So what, what do you think changed the most about you after the marine corps, after your exposure to the marine corps?

Thomas Doyle: 40:07

um, I've definitely become a lot more skeptical of authority now that I recognize how um incompetent a lot of authority is. And and you know people that you think would be the oh, these guys, they're up in these high-powered, incredibly important positions. They must really know some things, they must be aware of all kinds of crazy business and they must be just incredible wizards of management and understanding and all this kind of stuff. And you start to realize a lot of times they're not. They're just regular people and sometimes they're absolute buffoons and morons who have just been able to put on a good show, yeah, and and convince people that they're smart when they're really idiots and and sometimes they are really smart, sometimes they're really really smart. And, like we have a chess board here sitting in front of us, they might be the best chess player in the world. They don't know jack about woodworking. Yeah, they don't know. They don't know freaking. They don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to changing a tire on a car, you know they, you know. When it comes to practical applications of things, they don't know. They don't know a damn thing.

Thomas Doyle: 41:13

And and yet they're incredibly high level management and giving orders that are causing dramatic changes in things, and so I started to see a lot of that. And then there's the, the famous, my famous bureaucracy thing that I noticed when I was going to school in Roxborough. I thought this was a feature of Los Angeles, where the, the government agencies are, are just using money just because they can. I saw it a little bit in the marine corps when working in the, the training shop in in mass too, where you had a budget. You have to spend that budget, because if you don't, you may not get that whole budget next year and you might need it next year, so you better spend the whole thing.

Thomas Doyle: 41:58

Yeah, I remember hearing that too yeah, and it's like we don't need this. We've got. You got, however, many thousands of dollars for office supplies and chairs and desks and everything. We don't need new desks and chairs, like. We do need some more fuel for the trucks and we need money for range time so we can go out and do more training. Why don't we just spend all this money that we don't need for furniture on training time Problem solved, need for furniture on training time problem solved and got told that that was just a ridiculous idea that they would never allow us to do that.

Thomas Doyle: 42:30

That's, that's not possible. You, you can't do that. Don't worry about that. Sarin doyle, those the officers are going to are figuring this stuff out. You don't understand. And what I didn't understand at the time is that higher up and I'm using air quotes as I say that for anyone who can't see has made a decision and people who make decisions do not like to have their decisions questioned by the people who are supposed to be carrying out their decisions. So there's a very strong tendency to just do what you're told, because it makes everybody's life easier, especially when there's large amounts of money being thrown around and especially when you're responsible for just spending the money and it's not your money exactly.

Thomas Doyle: 43:13

It's not your money, so you just, you just blow it and and you just use it one thing the funny part is the marine corps, I learned, pisses away millions of dollars every month, every single month, pisses away tens of millions of dollars every month. But if you compare the Marine Corps to any other branch of the service, the Marine Corps comes out of that looking like wizards of thriftiness and savings, and the whole military as a whole. If you compare the military to any other branch of the federal government, the military comes out of that comparison looking like masters of financial management and it's really really terrible. The Marine Corps pisses away tens of millions. The rest of the freaking, the rest of the US military, pisses away hundreds of millions, if not billions. The rest of the federal government pisses away hundreds of millions, if not billions. The rest of the federal government pisses away hundreds of billions.

Trey Carson: 44:09

I. I mean, I see a little bit of that even at, like the school, like our school level, yeah, the amount of administrators and how much they get paid. I mean one of them, a superintendent, just resigned, yeah, because of because he was acting, uh, in bad faith and did some some sketchy things and there's no criminal charges, but it's like, yeah, okay, I'll bow out, you know type of thing, at least to my knowledge, but he got like a quarter million dollar severance package for a local, for like a local school district.

Trey Carson: 44:36

It's not like we live in a big city yep, this is the local rinky-dink school system oh, that reminds me of the thing that I saw.

Thomas Doyle: 44:43

This was in Roxborough. If you ever watch, like city, municipal workers working on a street and especially if you drive past them daily over an extended period like a month or so, and you watch them doing some street work and you drive past them every day, you'll see it, especially if you go by there multiple times a day. And when I was going to school in Roxborough there was one particular corner that I had to go around every single day and they were doing work there. So I saw this happen and I had seen it in Los Angeles and I thought it was a feature of Los Angeles and discovered that no, it's a feature of all municipalities everywhere.

Thomas Doyle: 45:16

Watch what they do as they're paving that street. You will see them rip up the old, freaking the old street, the old asphalt, the old concrete, and then they'll lay down fresh concrete, new concrete. They'll repave the whole thing and they rip up the new pavement and they start laying in like conduit and piping and stuff like that and they repave over that. Then they rip up all that pavement and then they start laying in a sidewalk so you're saying they leave the same pavement three times a at minimum?

Trey Carson: 45:43

Yes, you saw this.

Thomas Doyle: 45:44

Yes, that's crazy. I watched them do it and this is, like I said, that's the norm in Los Angeles. That happens all the time in Los Angeles and I thought it was just the corruption of Los Angeles. And then I saw them do it in Roxborough, north Carolina.

Trey Carson: 45:58

Why do you think that is Like how did we come to this point? Like, how did we come to this point? Why do you think they're doing that?

Thomas Doyle: 46:05

It is a natural feature of bureaucracy that if you're getting paid to do a job and then when you're done, you're not going to get paid anymore. Would you want that?

Trey Carson: 46:16

job to end. What if we just paid them a flat amount? What do you mean? Like you have a month to do this job and the salary is, or the pay is, $1 million to complete the project All right Now they've spent a million dollars and they've took their month and the project is 90% done.

Thomas Doyle: 46:32

Okay, then what?

Trey Carson: 46:34

I mean, I would imagine that in like a common sense world, either there'd be a discussion or there'd be some employee changes. So somebody would be fired, in other words, I mean, I presume I'm not saying that in every situation that's going to be the case, but if this is how you operate, then yeah, but here's the problem.

Thomas Doyle: 46:55

The guy who owns that construction company is the brother-in-law of the city superintendent.

Trey Carson: 47:01

But where do you think it all comes from?

Thomas Doyle: 47:04

It is. It is a natural function of bureaucracy.

Trey Carson: 47:07

All bureaucracy Go one step beyond that. Why do we have the bureaucracy?

Thomas Doyle: 47:12

Because people believe that you need government to do those kinds of things.

Trey Carson: 47:17

What do you believe in that? In that context, how do roads get built without government?

Thomas Doyle: 47:23

How did they get built when it wasn't government's responsibility to do it?

Trey Carson: 47:25

don't know who built roads before government.

Thomas Doyle: 47:28

I'm not sure people private citizens would build the roads or pay to have the road built. How to run? When it was general private citizens doing it, they would hold that, cut that. Contractor, better make sure that road got built, because if they didn't, the private citizens would take them to court.

Trey Carson: 47:41

How did rome build roads? Was it the rome government or Rome citizenry?

Thomas Doyle: 47:44

That was the Roman government, that was the Roman army specifically.

Trey Carson: 47:47

They did a pretty good job. Yeah, they built some really nice roads Well, not even nice, just they lasted a long time and there was a lot of them.

Thomas Doyle: 47:53

Yeah, Funny story about the Roman bureaucracy. This is something else. I learned, freaking, reading encyclopedias and stuff, and actually my real epiphany happened, uh, through wikipedia. I saw a map on wikipedia. You know, you've heard, you've heard how, you know, the roman empire conquered the world, right? Well, that's actually not true. The roman empire didn't really conquer anything. The roman republic conquered the world.

Thomas Doyle: 48:19

And I realized this when I saw a map of the expansion of rome. And it, it know, it starts out as a little city state in the middle of Italy, and then it jumps and expands and it's controlling the whole middle section of Italy, and then it's controlling the whole Southern boot of Italy and then it takes over Sicily, then it takes over the Northern half and it, you know, it's continuously expanding until all of a sudden it controls all of the Mediterranean world, the whole thing, and all of the Mediterranean world, the whole thing, and then huge parts of Central Europe too, and all of North Africa, and just gobbling up everything around it, and then it changes into the Roman Empire and stops. There's literally almost no expansion. There's like two little provinces. In the 400 years of the Roman Empire they added two provinces and they're very tiny provinces.

Trey Carson: 49:06

All the other expansion was under the roman republic. Yes, what's and it? Why do you draw that distinction?

Thomas Doyle: 49:12

so this is an important distinction, because when the roman empire split apart into two, the eastern and western halves, this division was done specifically because it was so big and so complex that one emperor couldn't rule at all and couldn't manage it all. But then overlay that over that map I just mentioned. The Roman Empire didn't expand, it didn't get any bigger. So how could it possibly have been too difficult for one man to manage it when one man had been managing it for 300 years at that point? So what changed? The roman state itself changed. It got much, much bigger and over time, continually and progressively ate a larger portion of the, the output of roman society do you know?

Trey Carson: 50:01

I? I mean, I maybe this falls back into the how many times do you think about?

Thomas Doyle: 50:08

roman empire.

Trey Carson: 50:08

Roman empire every day I, I do think about it probably every other day or so, but one thing that stands out to me is that they're how their currency devalued. Yes, at the exact same time, if you look at from kind of the first sets of roma coins to really be issued after rome became what you might call a superpower yeah and then to the end of its lifetime, the amount of precious metal compared to the amount of scrap metal included in the coins continuously is devalued yep, I've wondered in that context is what would have happened if rome hadn't devalued its currency.

Trey Carson: 50:42

like I'm not exactly sure how Rome fell, I mean it was, it was. It's a large event in history that I'm sure has, you know, a variety of factors. Yeah, but what one of the factors, arguably, was the devaluation of their currency.

Thomas Doyle: 50:57

Yeah, another factor played a part, yeah.

Trey Carson: 50:58

Another factor might be the bureaucracy and the weight of that bureaucracy that was created. Uh, the split between the Eastern and the, the. Was it the Eastern and Western right?

Thomas Doyle: 51:07

Eastern Western.

Trey Carson: 51:08

Eastern Western empires. Yeah, um might've played into it, but all, all of those things, except for currency, depend on leadership and men. Yes, uh well, the currency does too it's.

Trey Carson: 51:26

it's the corruption of the men that's causing that devaluation of the currency, yeah, but that that's kind of my point, is that the currency in it of itself doesn't do anything. The men change the currency, or the leadership changes the currency, yeah, but but why do they change the currency? And the answer is simply, in my opinion, because they need more of it. They, they need it. They need it to be cheaper and easier to produce. So if you wonder what happens if they were using a currency that couldn't have been cheaper and easier to produce.

Trey Carson: 51:50

That, in fact, got harder. What would have happened to Rome over the next, say, 1,000 years if their currency had remained limited, if there was 100 million gold coins that served as the roman currency? Yeah, and for the sake of argument, say those gold coins couldn't be divided or counterfeited yeah then what would have happened? Right like, if you compare it to bitcoin, you end up in a scenario where it's like the money's getting more valuable, the population is getting richer. What happens? We don't know, because it didn't yeah, there was nothing like that.

Thomas Doyle: 52:24

We've never seen that, at least as far as we know.

Trey Carson: 52:25

Yeah but do you think that in today's modern society that we're comparable to rome in the united states, like we're following a similar course? There's definitely a lot of parallels. Yeah, do you think that currency is one of those parallels? Yes yes, what other parallels do you think exists between us and rome?

Thomas Doyle: 52:47

um a lack of willingness to stand up for your state why do you need to stand up for your state? Because there are always barbarians out in the wilderness are we waiting for the opportunity to sack your city.

Thomas Doyle: 53:01

In the days of r, that was literal. There were literal barbarian tribes living outside the Roman empire and these were basically just wild people who were, were not civilized. I mean that in the traditional sense. They had no, they had no permanent cities. They did not have their own written languages. They often had oral traditions and such, but they didn't have, they didn't have a written language.

Trey Carson: 53:20

So when you also call them, using it the language.

Thomas Doyle: 53:31

So when you also call them, using it the literal sense, couldn't you also call them just free peoples? Yeah, you could. So rome conquered free peoples, at least in some cases. In some cases, yeah, there was. There was a number of civilizations that they conquered and destroyed. Yeah, carthage being the most obvious.

Trey Carson: 53:36

I I wonder the same about the united states. Yeah, are we? Are we like? I understand that within our, our, our borders and our structure, our legal system, that we have a certain level of freedom that in other places, under certain circumstances, doesn't exist? And vice versa is true. I can only go 70 miles an hour on the interstate, generally speaking, in Germany, on the Autobahn you can go as fast as you want. So there are freedoms that we don't have, right?

Trey Carson: 53:59

Yes, All speed limits should be abolished, by the way, but all speed limits should be abolished, by the way, but the the, the idea that that we aren't the other barbarians, is what bothers me well what?

Thomas Doyle: 54:11

what I mean by that is there's a there's a specific problem with it, because anything taken to its extreme is poisonous. Freedom is the same way. If you take freedom to its logical conclusion, you have anarchy, and the result of that is these barbarian tribes get to do whatever the hell they want, and typically what they want is to plunder, rape and murder, and that's exactly what they did when they marched in the roman empire.

Trey Carson: 54:34

They, they basically tore it all down and burned it. Let's say that you're a roman soldier, are you not? Are you not plundering, raping and murdering, in that you're in the same time period where pretty much everybody who got conquered, depending on not I mean unrelated to who conquered you, for the most part you were going to be raped, plundered and murdered, not true? Who didn't rape, plunder and murder, at least in mass? Well, no, no.

Thomas Doyle: 54:55

It depended on how the conquering went and what level of resistance you put up. Did you fight, did you, was there a big war, or were you just absorbed into the empire? For example, egypt? Egypt was basically just absorbed into the empire. It was never never conquered per se. There were several wars fought there, but just because of the nature of those wars, egypt itself was never really plundered and conquered in that way well, let's come back to you.

Trey Carson: 55:23

Yeah, you're sure of a lot of things. Yeah, can you give us a list of a few things? You are undoubtedly go to your grave? No evidence can change you. Yeah, things that are true, things that you believe christ is king okay, we got that one.

Thomas Doyle: 55:44

Um, an armed population is a safer population, okay, and I don't mean that in the sense of individually, they're safer from any bad thing happening to an individual person. I mean, if the population in general is armed, there's a lesser chance there's still a chance, but a lesser chance of invasion of government tyranny, of a specific individual person being attacked. There's a very high likelihood that you are armed. Criminals and human predators are much less likely to try and attack you if you're very likely to be armed so christ is king?

Thomas Doyle: 56:24

yep, guns are good, yes uh, all income and property taxes are theft the last guest that I had on was the alamance county.

Trey Carson: 56:33

He's a he's a candidate for the alamance county board of commissioners uh-huh very nice guy yeah I I really enjoy talking with him, both on the podcast and a little bit before and after he's. He's generally pro freedom.

Thomas Doyle: 56:47

His name's?

Trey Carson: 56:48

uh, what was the? Ed? Huh, Ed Priola, ed Priola, I couldn't remember his last name. Um, he would disagree with you because the first statement he made was he was talking about how schools are becoming socialist.

Thomas Doyle: 56:59

Yes.

Trey Carson: 57:00

And I said what kind of socialist are you talking about? Socialists? Like you need to pay for roads, have a fire department and military, or like everything needs to be paid for by the government and taxed? And he was like, well, I think any reasonable person would say that kind of building roads and maintaining a military and certain level of taxation is okay, but I.

Thomas Doyle: 57:19

I would disagree with that. I would say that a certain level of taxation is necessary. I would still classify it as evil. It is a necessary evil and, as such, should always be restricted to the greatest extent possible. So tax as opposed to expanding it to the greatest extent possible, which is exactly what we're doing now.

Trey Carson: 57:40

Christ is King. Yeah, taxes are bad. Yes, or our guns are good. Taxes are bad. Yes, our guns are good. Taxes are bad. Yes. That's three. Do you have any others that you can't be wavered?

Thomas Doyle: 57:49

um. Nuclear power is dramatically underutilized and could solve a whole lot of the problems that we have okay abortion, um yeah, bad any, any exception well it's, it's always bad. In the case of the mother's life is in danger, then she has the right to make the call. That's very terrible, that's. That's not just bad, that's very terrible. I would never wish that on anyone. But if she finds herself in that situation, she has the right to make the call.

Trey Carson: 58:20

Anything other than that is you're, you're, you're killing a human now we can go down a long road with every single one of those topics, yes, but what I wanted to just lay out was what your fundamental beliefs are, the things that you really can't be wavered on right like it's going to be pretty hard to waver me on uh, it would come back to a previous joke. Waver me on gravity. I don't necessarily know how it works, but I know that shit's real right, that's not what you were arguing that night that was 151 arguing that

Thomas Doyle: 58:54

night yeah, oh, here's another one um.

Trey Carson: 58:58

The us constitution is the greatest political document ever written would you not compare or maybe say that the Magna Carta was slightly better, since it was first?

Thomas Doyle: 59:07

No, in the same way that I would not say that a Model T is better than a modern Toyota Camry.

Trey Carson: 59:13

But you wouldn't have a Camry without a Model T Correct, you wouldn't have James Bond. It's a precursor. It's not better.

Thomas Doyle: 59:20

It has been expanded and improved upon. The Magnana carta specifically guaranteed the rights of the noblemen against the king. The us constitution expanded that concept to include all people. Well, or specifically all citizens. I shouldn't say it was the first, because it wasn't.

Trey Carson: 59:33

I at least, I know of one more, one other kind of explanation of rights, and that was uh, I'm gonna fuck this up it was the as persian uh one of the early, early pre-biblical or maybe biblical, persian kings. Yeah, he had a basically a bill of rights written on in, not even on papyrus, it was written on clay tablets in uh, I can't remember the name of the language um, I think I know what you're talking about. Uh, that is cyrus, cyrus, cyrus.

Thomas Doyle: 1:00:02

The great, I think I know who you're talking about. That's a similar thing, but it's it's similarly limited and and actually, if you look up, like the Roman constitution that the Roman Republic operated under, that's also similar to that, but that also restricts the right it's rights for the citizens.

Trey Carson: 1:00:17

But the original constitution didn't also restricted some people right, because it didn't include everybody didn't have the same rights at the beginning of the Constitution. Yes, they did Black people had the same rights at the beginning of the Constitution. Funny story.

Thomas Doyle: 1:00:28

The Constitution itself doesn't distinguish black people from white people. Race is not mentioned, not one single time in the Constitution.

Trey Carson: 1:00:34

Sex is when All men are created equal.

Thomas Doyle: 1:00:38

And that is universally agreed to have.

Trey Carson: 1:00:40

referenced mankind is universally agreed to have referenced mankind, but does it reference women specifically? Because it references men specifically.

Thomas Doyle: 1:00:45

That's the thing. It doesn't distinguish between men and women. It's saying man in the sense of mankind.

Trey Carson: 1:00:50

Like one giant step for man, one giant leap for mankind. Yes, that's what he's talking about. No, I get the point. What I'm saying is like-.

Thomas Doyle: 1:00:56

Those distinctions were all added later. For example, the whole distinction people make about slavery and that slavery was allowed on the Constitution. That's not true. That's blatantly false. There's nothing in the Constitution that would permit or allow slavery, and the basic lists of rights and such in there would explicitly prohibit slavery.

Trey Carson: 1:01:18

Allowing slavery was a very obvious deal with the devil.

Thomas Doyle: 1:01:21

It was a compromise. It was always contradictory to the devil. It was a compromise. It was always contradictory to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Everyone knew that. It was a Faustian bargain that they made to try and beat the British. A Faustian. This was Abraham Lincoln's point. If you ever read the I think it was Lincoln-Douglas debates, where he's debating the guy that was running against him for president, which was right before the Civil War. He's debating the guy that was running against him for president, which is right before the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln's entire point is this institution is completely incompatible with this document this document being the Constitution that there's no possible way you can justify this institution under this document.

Trey Carson: 1:02:00

You cannot reconcile those two.

Thomas Doyle: 1:02:01

That was his entire point and nobody could argue that. At the time the actual slave owners could not argue that point and they didn't try. The minute he got elected they started shooting.

Trey Carson: 1:02:13

So let's summarize, unless you got another one. So we've got Christ is king. We've got guns are good, taxes are bad. The Constitution, the Constitution is good.

Thomas Doyle: 1:02:23

Yeah, taxes are bad. Yeah the constitution, yeah Constitution is good.

Trey Carson: 1:02:25

I'm missing one. I feel like I'm missing one. Maybe that's it, but does that so? Does that kind of summarize your foundation?

Thomas Doyle: 1:02:33

For the most part. Yeah, I'm sure there's there's other things that we could we could go over, but that's what I can think to do the same thing.

Trey Carson: 1:02:40

Bitcoin, that's the only thing I'm sure of, because it's math.

Thomas Doyle: 1:02:45

It's physics.

Trey Carson: 1:02:47

I don't have to necessarily know how every piece of the math works or understand how physics works at an atomic level.

Thomas Doyle: 1:02:53

Yeah, but as yet the people who do understand those things can't break it.

Trey Carson: 1:02:58

Yes, and even Elon came out recently Well, I don't know how recent it was, say the past year and they were asking him about AI and he was like even AI can't fundamentally break the laws of physics Unless it discovers a new realm of physics that we don't understand, that circumvents our current understanding. The laws of mathematics, the laws of physics, will maintain Now it might become extremely good at math at a level we've never seen before. It'd be. Now it might become extremely good at math to level we've never seen before, yeah, and be much faster than current computers. But once it can do it and we understand how it does it, yeah, presumably we will have some insight into that yeah we can mimic that because it's just math.

Trey Carson: 1:03:34

All we have to do is know how you put it together, how you answer the question or you solve the equation. Yeah, so bitcoin's the only thing that I'm 100 sold on? Yeah, like I don't know. I'm not going to compare it to your religious belief, but for me it almost is. It is, it is the bedrock in which I'm building every bit of who I am. Yeah, and my business and my life, my philosophies, have almost all changed because of bitcoin. Yep, running into bitcoin was almost like running into you at 19, like all of a sudden I was confronted by this like unmovable object that I couldn't logic my way out of. That seemed to be ahead of me. Yeah, um, now, obviously we're flawed humans, but bitcoin isn't, I mean. Sure, it might be flawed in certain ways I mean there's probably plenty of ways to argue that but fundamentally, it is to me the answer to many, many questions yeah, what have you not figured out? What is unanswered for you? What is the things that you struggle to?

Thomas Doyle: 1:04:33

reconcile? In what respect? What do you mean?

Trey Carson: 1:04:36

Any context, same as kind of the previous question. We've established who you are. Now I to establish who you're like, who, not necessarily who you're becoming, but where, how you're progressing, where you're questioning things, what, what isn't as, what isn't as clear to you as, say, your belief system and and or your beliefs in your, your religion or in your, I suppose I suppose, to an extent, bitcoin would fall into that category.

Thomas Doyle: 1:05:01

I'm you know I'm very about it. I do think it has tremendous potential. I'm clearly not as convinced about it as you are. I would like to see it succeed because it offers a potential alternative to the Federal Reserve System, which there's another one that I'm very certain about. The Federal Reserve System is extremely evil.

Trey Carson: 1:05:18

I would argue that the Federal Reserve System is responsible for more deaths than almost anything else in history. Include hitler, or to include world war ii in general, not just hitler I would disagree with that think about this. Why? Why is it that most of, or a lot of, the foods that we eat as americans are actually like a lot of the ingredients are outlawed almost everywhere else? Yeah, because it's the most profitable yes there's no other motivation for it unless every person who owns every major company is a psychopath and just wants to kill everybody.

Thomas Doyle: 1:05:46

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not arguing that the Federal Reserve is not evil. I'm just arguing death tolls. On the level of threats, I would argue the Federal Reserve is maybe two or three.

Trey Carson: 1:05:59

They're not an in-your-face threat. Most of the time you don't even know they killed you. Yeah, I, but they're they're. They're not a in your face threat there.

Thomas Doyle: 1:06:03

They don't. Most of the time, you don't even know they killed you.

Trey Carson: 1:06:04

Yeah, yeah, right, the idea with that.

Thomas Doyle: 1:06:06

But but there there haven't been enough deaths that could be laid at their feet to compare with something like socialism the the. American look like and I would also argue a lot of the evil the federal reserve does is being perpetrated through socialist systems.

Trey Carson: 1:06:22

Most definitely. But if you look at the, if you look at the, the degradation of the American society from 1971 until now, everything has gotten worse and everything's going to continue to get worse because the dollar is going to continue to be devalued. Yes, as that progresses, every person that dies that ate shit tons of fast food to drink ass, loads of soda. Yeah, that was all done under a federal reserve system yeah there's nobody really.

Trey Carson: 1:06:47

I mean, there's plenty of people left alive that were alive prior to 1971. Yes, but if you, if you look at 1971, until presumably the federal reserve ends at some point, that window between there, effectively every american has been touched by it yes with their health care system yes their, their, their working lives, the, the amount of stress. Everything it's all at the feet of the federal reserve, because if you continuously trace it, you get back to money. You trace the money you just go right back to the federal reserve. Yes, who's pulling these triggers?

Thomas Doyle: 1:07:17

yeah, yeah, the federal reserve behind almost all of it, but yeah, but I would still debate the level of evil, mostly because all of those people are not killed by it. A great many of them are injured by it, but a relatively small percentage of them are outright killed by it.

Trey Carson: 1:07:33

It'd be like like hitler, the, the nazis killed you in your face, right they, they scooped you up, they put you on a train, they, they took you to a camp and they walked you into a place that was going to gas you to death or they shot you.

Thomas Doyle: 1:07:45

Yes.

Trey Carson: 1:07:45

It was quick.

Thomas Doyle: 1:07:46

You understood yes.

Trey Carson: 1:07:47

At least to some degree, you understood that these people are not my fucking friends.

Thomas Doyle: 1:07:50

Yes.

Trey Carson: 1:07:51

The federal reserve is is not marching you to a gas chamber.

Thomas Doyle: 1:07:55

Yeah.

Trey Carson: 1:07:56

It's just accelerating the slate, like the amount of time you must slave to them.

Thomas Doyle: 1:08:00

Yes, yes, and that's part of why, I would argue, the degrees of evil. The Federal Reserve wants to make slaves of everybody. They're not actually out to exterminate everyone.

Trey Carson: 1:08:12

Yeah, they can't exterminate them necessarily.

Thomas Doyle: 1:08:13

Yeah, the Federal Reserve doesn't want everyone dead, and that is the distinction there. The greater evil is the one that wants everyone dead.

Trey Carson: 1:08:21

So I land on Bitcoin. Yeah, right, we could talk about that. Greater evil is the one that wants everyone dead, so I land on Bitcoin. Right, we could talk about that all day.

Thomas Doyle: 1:08:26

Yes, yeah, we don't have too much more time. I have to head out here pretty soon. Yeah, so we can talk about all day.

Trey Carson: 1:08:31

But so you're pro Bitcoin, you're pro gun.

Thomas Doyle: 1:08:34

Yes.

Trey Carson: 1:08:35

You're pro Catholic. What are you anti?

Thomas Doyle: 1:08:37

I know that you're anti government such like but let's get, let's get a little more nuanced. Uh, anti-communist um, I'm anti-feminist uh anti-democrat?

Trey Carson: 1:08:47

are you anti-republican?

Thomas Doyle: 1:08:51

uh, not specifically. No, there are a lot of corrupt republicans, but the party itself doesn't have a completely evil platform. Now you can argue that that platform may be just a complete smokescreen, but the party's official position is not explicitly overtly evil, as opposed to the Democratic Party, which is absolutely 100%, explicitly overtly evil.

Trey Carson: 1:09:17

Do you think the average Democrat is evil?

Thomas Doyle: 1:09:21

Probably not, but a lot of them are insane. We were discussing this earlier. The the people that would yeah, the people that would get that question question wrong are very frequently Democrats.

Trey Carson: 1:09:33

Can we get a? Can we get a?

Thomas Doyle: 1:09:34

recap of that question. Um, so yeah, the the the bear question is you ask an individual, um, if you were out in the woods and you're maybe lost or something, you're lost in the woods, you're not 100% sure where you are or how to get out, and you have two options for two random encounters. One of them you randomly encounter an adult, male, human, so a man, randomly selected man. You know nothing about this person, you've never seen them before. You don't know their race, their ethnicity, their background, their culture. You know nothing about them, nothing at all. But this is a person from the United States. You're in the United States. Second encounter a bear, an adult bear. Which one do you pick? An adult bear, which one do you pick?

Thomas Doyle: 1:10:24

And there is a depressingly high number of people who nowadays will pick the bear. They do this, they say, because men make them feel uncomfortable, they're scared of men. They've had bad experiences with men. Some of them have been attacked and victimized by men. They've had bad experiences with men. Some of them have been attacked and victimized by men. And they say that the people asking this question just don't understand their feelings and they don't understand that they're trying to make a statement with this answer about how unsafe they feel around men and how bad men are behaving nowadays. And the problem that these people have that they don't understand is the people asking the question are fully aware of that. We understand completely why you're making the choice you're making, and the people who are answering bear don't understand that.

Thomas Doyle: 1:11:16

The people asking the question are making the point that you don't understand the situation. You're making a decision based on how you feel about the situation, but the situation has an imminent threat, a genuine danger to your life, and in any survival situation there is a right and wrong answer. The wrong answer is the one where you're more likely to die. The right answer is the one where you're more likely to die. The right answer is the one where you're more likely to live, and anytime when you have that those two options, the answer should be so clear as to be utterly unmistakable as to which is right and which is wrong. You should instantly know, just at a glance, exactly which way to go in order to live and not die.

Thomas Doyle: 1:12:07

And the problem is there's a huge number of people in America today who don't know that, they don't understand that, they don't even notice it or recognize it, and they'll say things like oh well, I wouldn't mind being killed by a bear. And obviously a person who says something like that has no concept or comprehension of what that statement means. You have no concept of death or pain if you think you'd be okay being eaten by a bear. And that's why men nowadays because it's most often women who say that about the bear, that's why men are saying things nowadays like women are crazy. Because women will say things like that, like they would rather be stuck in the woods with a wild bear than a random man.

Trey Carson: 1:12:54

Why? Like what, what? What is the point of this question? Like what are you hoping to? I understand that. I understand that there's a level of A entertainment and B exposing a level of ignorance per se. Yes, so a person answers this question. They get the answer incorrect. Where do you go from there in that conversation with a person?

Thomas Doyle: 1:13:18

So it is demonstrating that no rational conversation is possible with that person. It's demonstrating it in real time. This person cannot comprehend of a deadly threat right there in front of them. Their feelings of discomfort of being alone with a random man is greater than their desire to live.

Trey Carson: 1:13:41

Is that something that you think that they did, like they came to this conclusion on their own, or is there something pushing them in this direction?

Thomas Doyle: 1:13:51

I think there's a great deal pushing them in this direction. There's a whole lot of propaganda nowadays. I mentioned a minute ago that I'm anti-feminist. Most feminists if you actually read feminist literature, are extremely misandrist. Misandrist is the hatred or contempt of men. They're very vehemently, openly hateful of men. They consider all men to be a threat. They consider all men to be predators, which is absolutely insane. If you actually look at the stats, it's approximately 2% of people and it's all people, men and women. Both are true psychopaths, genuine human well, you don't.

Trey Carson: 1:14:24

You don't even have to look that far, you can just walk into a grocery store yes, and be like okay, I see a couple, yeah, they, yeah, they're perfectly fine, they seem normal. Okay, you can look at a thousand couples and 998 of them are going to be. I mean, they might have marital problems or what have you might argue, but yeah they're the neither one of them are actively trying to hurt, yeah, or kill or injure yes, yeah, and this is.

Thomas Doyle: 1:14:51

This is part of the part of the problem here is most people encounter random men tens of thousands of times in any given month and you don't even notice it because nothing happens. You don't encounter bears very frequently because they have a tendency to see humans as food and every bear that's ever killed and eaten a human human men most mostly will go out, hunt that bear down and kill it. We've killed all the man eating bears, so there ain't that many of them around anymore. That's. That's why you're not likely to encounter a man-eating bear, because we've killed them all and we used to do that for humans too.

Thomas Doyle: 1:15:31

But I mentioned a little while ago I'm anti-democrat. If you look up modern democratic policies for any major city in the country, it doesn't matter which one pick one and just start looking up the local court cases and look up the rap sheets of the people who are being charged with various crimes. Pick a crime it doesn't matter which one you pick. You can pick felonious assault, you can pick rape, you can pick murder and just look up the rap sheets of the people who are being charged with these crimes. You'll find they've all been charged before, all of them and most of them were were just let out by democrats, and this is a constant thing that's happening everywhere in the country, and this is this is a conscious choice that people have made to be soft on crime, including violent crimes, which, surprise, surprise if you let violent criminals out into the streets, you get more crime. Who knew?

Thomas Doyle: 1:16:27

But yeah, it's a very obvious thing where people are making a bad decision. You could argue with good intentions, but the decision is bad. Bad from a sense of if you do one thing, more people get hurt. You do the other thing, less people get hurt. One thing more people get hurt. You do the other thing, less people get hurt. They are choosing more people get hurt because that choice feels good in the moment, in the same way of the bear. You're choosing the wrong thing because that feels okay as opposed to what is the actual threat here, and nobody is looking at the situation and assessing the threat and, as a result, you, you run into the threat more. You're more likely to become a victim that way.

Trey Carson: 1:17:11

I feel like when I met you, yeah, that I I was very ignorant of the world. You influenced my beliefs heavily. I remember, early in my like probably midway through my high school period, yeah, my stepdad, uh, gentleman named bill, uh, it was around um, I think it was george bush's first election, I believe and he said no, no, no, I got my timing wrong because I had to be 18. Cause it was about me voting, or I was going to be 18 when the vote occurred and he said he said, are you voting? And I said I don't even know who to vote for.

Trey Carson: 1:17:53

I couldn't tell you if I'm a Republican or Democrat, I have no idea. And he said do you like guns? And I said yes. And he said do you want people all up in your shit? I said no. He said then you're a republican, vote republican, yeah. But when I met you, yeah, was when I really started to develop some type of political sense, and it wasn't that you were telling me things that I didn't maybe kind of know yeah you know just as a common sense thing.

Trey Carson: 1:18:17

Yeah, but you were. You were putting it into new questions and new scenarios that I'd never considered, that really drill down to a lot more of the core. Have you ever felt like you've met somebody on the opposite side of the aisle on the Democrat side of the aisle, that that introduced arguments that really changed or pushed you around at all, or that that you didn't know how to work with Cause? What I'd like to find out is the way I met you. I was never going to shake your arguments. We did argue, but I never really had any good footing on the religious and political side.

Thomas Doyle: 1:18:51

You did make me see reason on the one point Weed.

Trey Carson: 1:18:55

Yeah, weed yeah.

Thomas Doyle: 1:18:56

Which is the government should get out of it. Yeah, it's a plant. Government should butt out. Yeah.

Trey Carson: 1:19:01

But what I'd like to see is that there is, if you feel like maybe either you've ran into somebody like this before and we can reach out to them, or if if we could find somebody that has got a similar background to you, but the opposite, then maybe they were raised Democrat in a family of Democrats and they have certain ideals, but they're well-versed. They're well-versed on history, they're well-versed on this. Have you run into somebody like that?

Thomas Doyle: 1:19:27

So this may sound a little bit arrogant, but no. And when I when I encounter Democrats, especially diehard Democrats, what I find most often is that they engage in double think routinely, double think being the ability to hold two contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time and simultaneously believe both of them.

Trey Carson: 1:19:48

Well, what we should do I've learned a lot from you yeah but I've learned a lot from other people and I've learned a lot from arguing with other people and listening to you argue with other people honestly, because I've heard you argue with a lot of people.

Thomas Doyle: 1:20:01

Yeah, we should find somebody you missed one of the best arguments I ever had. I met a met a holocaust denier and that was absolutely fascinating to to see his contradictions and his double think. And and now to his credit, I I pointed out a very obvious fact to him and it just kind of shut his whole argument down and it just blew his mind and it was that was.

Trey Carson: 1:20:22

That was funny to watch we need to find somebody who can argue with you, not argue. That's not what I'm hoping to have.

Trey Carson: 1:20:27

I'm hoping to have, like a, an intellectual debate where not I'm not trying to budge either side, I'm trying to understand both sides yeah because I I've gotten tons of information from you over the past decade, yeah, but really I can only think of one person, austin's brother, joe who's really even tried to stand with you over periods of time, while maintaining his own beliefs and really not backing down, like Joe doesn't really seem like he ever goes. Oh okay, you got me, that's it. You guys tend to go back and forth, so it'd be interesting to find somebody like Joe, or Joe himself, to come on the podcast with you and we could have like kind of an initial I mean his brother, or mike's brother, austin, austin's brother what did I debate with him?

Trey Carson: 1:21:09

oh, it's mike bar's brother, sorry, yeah, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm thinking, yeah, yeah, my bar's brother, yeah, my bar's brother, yeah, I was like I wait, I didn't debate with his brother about it no, no, yeah, his brother we actually saw pretty pretty eye to eye. Yeah, his brother's a big magic gathering. Yeah, yeah, pimp Kane.

Thomas Doyle: 1:21:24

Yeah, very well. Yeah, it would be interesting to get him down here and we could debate about something.

Trey Carson: 1:21:29

I'd also like to get you on some of the Bitcoin-related podcasts, because I think that people that can explain it better than me and we're going to come across them people that understand more about it, not even at the Bitcoin level, but understand more about the financial system, and being able to explain some of these more advanced concepts that I'm only vaguely aware of, would be a very interesting conversation. So we should find, if you're listening and you're in our area Central North Carolina and you want to come on and have a discussion with Doyle, I promise you we'll give you a reasonable amount of alcohol and and a safe environment to have a discussion and we can shake hands at the end. Right, we might argue and raise hell, but at the end of the day, neither one of us are um, we don't wish ill upon anyone yeah, and I will say a lot of the debates have ended very amicably, like the debates I've had with joe yeah again, they've ended very amicably.

Thomas Doyle: 1:22:22

And then, um, red's dad or stepdad I believe it's his stepdad, not his actual dad. Uh, do you know the little kid red that we had working for us?

Thomas Doyle: 1:22:31

yeah, he was working at your shop yeah, yeah, uh, his stepdad is a teacher at I don't remember. I don't remember where he he teaches that. He's some kind of an educator and such and he's fairly liberal, kind of a left-leaning guy, but he's not like a hardcore Democrat or communist or anything like that. And we were talking about guns and about government policy and things like that and we had a big long debate for like an hour or two and yeah, I think it was almost two hours actually. We debated him but yeah, he seemed perfectly reasonable and I like to think we kind of changed his mind a little bit on the guns, on why trusting the government to have all the guns is a bad idea.

Trey Carson: 1:23:16

Well, I think we'll probably have to wrap up here, but I'm glad that the community that we're starting to establish is able to meet you Because again I've said it a bunch of times like you've been a valuable portion of my life and I think everyone should have a Doyle in their lives, somebody who, no matter what you know, you can rely on them. You know that they are going to help you if you need help, and they're going to tell you the truth. Everybody needs somebody like that. That said, you've been on the podcast. You speak favorably about Bitcoin. We need to cover that more in depth later, but if you're willing to, we'd like to get you to sign our Bitcoin artwork and like we kind of talked about earlier.

Trey Carson: 1:24:00

The idea behind this is that we've got a canvas that every guest signs. You can sign as big as small, whatever color. You can draw a picture, you can make a, you can draw an advertisement, whatever you want, and at the end of our first 21 episodes we're going to take this and try to auction it off. If anybody buys it in Bitcoin, those funds will go to the Bitcoin core developers. If nobody buys it, then I will donate to the Bitcoin core developers and hang it on my wall. But either way, if this podcast is to continue and have any impact on our community or on Bitcoin or on us, this will be the first. This will be where it started. This is the original folk and to me I think that's pretty cool. It's kind of part of like a Bitcoin history and our and and our podcast history so very well, you want to sign it sure all right.

Trey Carson: 1:24:49

Thanks dill, thanks everybody yeah, uh.

Thomas Doyle: 1:24:51

One last thing I will say uh, we need to repeal the nfa and ave christus rex before you go.

Trey Carson: 1:24:57

Yes, take a minute. Tell people where they can find you if they want to debate you, if they want to tell you you're an idiot, or where they can buy your products and kind of the contact information.

Thomas Doyle: 1:25:06

Um so, uh, probably the best way to get hold of me is going to be to go through the gun shop. That's racket back armory. Uh, we're located at two, oh two East Washington street in Mebane, north Carolina. Now, I'm not in the shop every day, but if anybody wants to get hold of me, the people in the shop, uh sharon and half acres, the main guy in there, uh they'll, they'll be able to get hold of me what about or?

Thomas Doyle: 1:25:27

you can go through. Uh, trey carson, he knows how to get hold of me too what about twitter?

Thomas Doyle: 1:25:32

um, I do have a twitter page. I don't really use it to use it for much beyond just liking memes and stuff like that. Uh, I don't do a whole lot of social media debating these days just because it's it's such a pain to have to post a single, single reply and then wait for the person to see it, wait for them to reply, and then by the time they get back to you it may be two hours later and by that time I've already moved on to doing something else.

Trey Carson: 1:25:52

And your gun store.

Thomas Doyle: 1:25:54

Yeah.

Trey Carson: 1:25:54

What do you guys sell and what's your website?

Thomas Doyle: 1:25:57

So we do primarily gunsmithing. We have a little bit of stuff for sale, but not a whole lot. We also do screen printing and embroidery. So if you need T-shirts or anything like that done up, we can do that right there in the shop for you. Cerakote we do Cerakote for guns. We can do slide cuts on pistols, we can do scope mounting, we can do bluing, we can do traditional stock work. We can do almost anything you like in there. There's one or two things that we're still getting equipment in to do, but yeah, we can do almost anything.

Trey Carson: 1:26:29

And what's the website that people will go to if they want to check out your stuff?

Thomas Doyle: 1:26:32

If you Google Racketback Armory, I believe the very first thing that comes up is our website. I think it's racketbackarmorycom.

Trey Carson: 1:26:37

Yes, or something like some shortened version of that, possibly but something like that. Yep Cool. Well, uh, let's get this thing signed and thanks for coming.

Thomas Doyle: 1:26:44

Yep, no problem, appreciate everybody. Yep, y'all have a good night.